A portion of the interview with Julian Assange Agoravox. The full version can find it here .
There is talk of Italy, and beyond.
Because you never gave the cables in the Italian newspapers? "We did it. We have data at a great newspaper, but decided not to publish and work on it through the articles."
Which newspaper you gave them?
"They were two. The two largest (does not reveal the names, ed.) Previously we had worked with one of the two, but eventually they have not done anything. And 'The same thing happened in Japan, we gave them the cablesanche a national newspaper, the most important, he thinks that 2200 journalists, not to mention the other figures, only a reporter, almost the same number of Reuters. They refused and they also work in a very methodical way, we could say "the Japanese" (smile, ed.)
In which city did you grow up in Australia?
"I come from many places (laughs). My parents worked in the theater, so I've lived everywhere from Darwin to Merlbourne. And where do you live in Australia?".
Sydney, Parramatta.
"You will have learned a lot there."
Let's say I learned more in Naples. District where I come from.
"What?"
The one right next to where they shot the film Gomorrah, Secondigliano.
"Gomorrah, I know, I exchanged emails with the author, Roberto Saviano."
Are you worried about the process?
"No, there is a 40% chance for us to win, but in any case, both in case of victory, both in case of defeat, he will appeal. We intend to ask and obviously, if not, will the prosecution to do so. But between the ruling and the request will go about a week. Although it is important the process of Monday, the appeal will be more, because it will restart all over again. "
Meanwhile let you stay here or you go away?
"If we lose I'll be arrested again and I'll go to jail. We will try to demonstrate that it is inappropriate for me to go to jail, not being a dangerous subject. That'll probably go to jail for a few days and then I will arrest. Would still be a big relief for me to come back here. But if we win, I will free to leave. "
E 'was last in prison?
" It' s been an experience, an important experience. I learned many things, but an experience of ten days is too long, five days would be sufficient. "
As you are here in Beccles?
" A very quiet, we say that not much happens. People are very welcoming, even if they are responsible for increasing the "crime" in this place. "
While we laugh at this joke known for a picture on the fireplace featuring a hot air balloon which draws the ball and his face a sentence: "The people of Ellingham is with you."
Wikileaks How do you think you will succeed from an economic standpoint?
"For us it was a real problem that has happened. Until my arrest, we also managed to collect 110 thousand dollars in three and a half days. But this did not last long. We lost what we could gain from this "popularity" because we were blocked donations. We could have used this "popularity" because of funding and improve. This makes you realize how powerful the banking system, without waiting for an assessment of court, without waiting for anything, he decided to freeze our accounts. But thanks to this money we can make our site safer, more accessible: it is now easier to find information. "
Can a bank to get to this point?
Yes because they are very powerful. They trace all the transactions of the people. Visa, Bankamericard, record everything we do and is the reason why in Russia have their credit cards nationally, because they do not want the United States, through the database of credit cards, can monitor citizens. The banks also monitor those who do business with whom. The next cables that post, the most anticipated, do concern the banking universe. "
What do you think of Italy Silvio Berlusconi and the current situation?
" I do not like, But Italians do. The problem is not so much Mr. Berlusconi's political and economic power, but that she has used to make their own interests, corrupting the system. "
What else is clear about our country?
"One of the cables there are many who speak of corruption in Italy, the big companies. I'm coming many in your country. Especially about Eni, which is the pick that Italy used to enter into various countries around the world. Such as in Kyrgyzstan, where there is a strong bond based on bribery between Eni and local politicians. Eni is the very large Italian company corrupt. "
Why not leave these stories in our newspapers?
"The real problem is that in Italy the major newspapers do not speak of the stories of corruption, especially if they involve big companies. In the cables will come out and have a lot of things that do not use. Even in the interactions of large public companies such as Eni, with some foreign countries. Italian newspapers are dealing with people who are already in prison or on trial, but never mind people who have never been investigated, although mentioned in the cables.
There are other interesting things in the cables ?
"There are interesting elements for example with regard to the relationship between oil companies and governments. For example, British Petroleum is doing business with Iran. This is the great hypocrisy: Member of Iran and then complain we do business. "
I look at the clock and see that it's time that we are already there, I ask Julian if he wants us to go away and he tells us that there are no problems. We remain.
Have you ever asked funding agencies or foundations?
"Yes, we have knocked on many doors. But the foundations were not keen to fund projects that can lead to problems. They have only two" rules "do not fund organizations that could take the money and run away (and then, if anything, invest in weapons or cocaine) and not to finance projects that might, in future, putting them in complicated situations before the establishment. They are, therefore, exclusively to finance projects that have no value added. Actually acting in a very confined space where they exchange between board members and their funding through the data, seek to enter other salons. All properties are like that. The boards of directors of any foundation are made by people who are just trying to protect the status quo. And this is the antithesis of what should be the work of a foundation. An example in the United States, in this sense, could be the Ford Foundation. Moreover, their role is to take people from organizations that work, which may represent a potential danger and bring them inside. But their biggest mistake is to "pretend" not to do politics but how can you claim not to do politics when you participate in public life? When you finance public life, what does that mean we do not want to do politics? The same thing happens in Italy: in Italy no one truly innovative financing projects. "
Beyond the foundation, what do you think the other problems that create this type of lobbying system?
" Another problem is funding for scientific research. Take the example of malaria every day there are six or seven "September Eleven" of casualties caused by this disease, approximately 15,000 deaths each day. This could be solved as there is a possibility to genetically modify the mosquito carrier of malaria and to ensure that this does not carry the virus. This is because they do not say that the risk is too high, you do not know what the consequences would be. But I believe you can do a test period, even longer, but on the other side would save 15 thousand people a day! Most of them children. I do not know if I explain myself, but I'm sure that compared to 15 000 lives that they leave you can not do so. If you could, it would be best to try to stop this situation? The system that draws a clear framework in which people who are trying to save lives, not given support. "
Why Wikileaks began the project?
"My story from long ago. There is that one day I woke up and I did Wikileaks. I started in Australia with other publications along with other people, then a bit 'of fame with the documents against Scientology and 1994 in Australia, with a nickname I did do some hacking ... I have written several programs for image processing, and I became interested in mathematics, physics and mechanics, because to understand the technologies must be able to look in many directions.
What prompted you to go to the field of information?
"I started because too often journalists have abandoned their role of leading the public debate, raise issues, becoming just the people who follow him, rather than driving it. What we did to Wikileaks is probably something that nobody else would have done. I do not understand that journalists have a power that few possess: to lead the public debate ".
example?
" Take the example of Bill Keller of the New York Times, he did a description of telling me that I had when I met with the dirty shirt, sneakers, dirty socks, saying I was a careless person, which stank. It was the time when I was looking for, and I escaped from one place to another. I wonder why he said only the first part and not the second of what I told him, that I was awake for days to escape. This is just one example of how to discredit a person. All this is unworthy and even if it were true, that there was need to write these things (that I was dirty and smelled like a fugitive because I was)? Probably all this make to justify in the eyes of Washington that the New York Times has worked with Wikileaks. And 'as if they meant the White House: "we are not exposing against you, but we are working for you."
How did you choose New York Times?
"Today I can say because we made a choice to have an American newspaper, because our sources were American and for a legal reason, having an American newspaper, we could protect them better. If they were stopped they would have a publisher who would protect them in court and is That's why we chose an American newspaper. "
And then what happened?
"We have asked the New York Times to come out first, to publish the first news that we provide, but then agreed, unbelievably, they said no," you published before. " C *** How is it possible? The New York Times renounces the largest series of scoops to get them to publish a small website? And here you see that something happened to a paradox that has reversed their competitive instincts, because they had so much fear of the government that if we had not published, they would never have to press anything. We knew that we just handed them the cables, they went to a table with representatives of the CIA and NSA and said: "This is what we have. "
Can you give an example?
" For example, one of the most important news, the history of Unit 373, which is the most important story of what that happened in Afghanistan, which killed about 2 thousand people put on a list, which was responsible for targeted killings. unit so powerful that even when Karzai's brother hath been allowed to wander, the U.S. general says : 'He is wrong again and I'll put you on the list' (and here refers to the cable about a brother of Karzai's involvement in drug trafficking). The Afghan government has complained about this thing because even if you're a drug dealer, even if aid the Taliban, certainly there can be no operations, such as Unit 373, which go outside the law. When we told this story of Keller and Schmitt did not want to talk, "censuring" the most important fact we found documents about Afghanistan. This gives you the pulse of what the information is not doing its duty. "
Have you had the same problem with other papers?
"A similar problem we had with The Guardian, when you give the information to the Guardian, to those who are giving? The preparation or The Guardian Corporation, which is connected to a series of economic interests? To whom are you giving? And here I do not mean that all those who work there are bad people and bad reporters, there are good people, then from now on, we prefer to talk directly with these good people. Also because otherwise we will continue to give information to people who control the Guardian, and not to those who work for the Guardian. Also because if we continue to give to people who control the newspapers perpetuate simply the status quo. "
What do you think of France? And 'The same thing happened with Le Monde?
"There are two reasons why we gave the news to various newspapers. The first is because if a newspaper does not give it as it happened, there may be another that makes a cover story in Der Spiegel did a coma. If is given to the New York Times and the news is cut, as happened, there may be another paper that investigates the news. The second reason is what I have said before: when you give a cable to the Guardian, you are giving to those who: a person who works for the newspaper or check the newspaper? ".
What problems have you had with the Guardian?
"We were forced to do things in a way much faster than we wanted because there was a problem with the Guardian, which broke the agreements. We had a legal contract with them. We gave him a total back up files, they were the only ones to which we have given a complete archive, could not publish them or put them on a PC connected to the Internet, they could only read them. And they have broken every single part of this contract. They wanted to publish them, they put them on a PC connected to the Web: Who knows if now for example, China has stolen all the cables 250 thousand? This forced us to do things much more quickly. We went to the lawyers to try to get a month of extra time to avoid the issue, because we knew that we were under attack when they were published. And we got. "
And what choices you have made for publication?
"We have also chosen not to publish anything on Israel in the first week, because that would have created big problems. So we started with the release of files on other countries, so, once the boat had left, would have been more difficult to stop it. At first we did not have many files on Israel (assuming that other files have arrived after the start of publication of cables, note) and we were afraid of attacks that came from the East Coast of the USA. If we Get Started with cables on the hottest countries would be easier to divert the boat. During this first period, during which we suffered cyber attacks, the most important thing is that no one was hurt. "
So what will you do from now on?
"Before we could not make an effort at drafting, but now, yes. We have a network of people who support us. Also because if the good journalists diventaranno become more important than a stop to that hurt their work. "
[....]
're more scared by the United States or Israel?
"It 's the combination of these two to scare us. Also because there was a convergence of interests on the war in Iraq, on arms sales, and Bush supported the Israeli position supported by all his friends oil companies, earning them more money. And of course Israel has a strong legal with the East Coast U.S. bond strengthened, including through the granting of Israeli passports to many American Jews of that area, and This has strengthened the bond with the Earth Mother. It 's the same thing that Russia has done in South Ossetia, giving many citizens of that area the Russian passports for closer relations with Russia and fostering anti-Georgian sentiment. "
What do you think about the fact that some people are going to live the second World War III on-line?
"I hope so."
Explain.
"I was very impressed by the support we have had thousands of people helped us. For example, thanks to our Network, we managed to keep connected on 6% of the Egyptian population through a satellite of a large multinational company, unbeknownst to them, of course. "
"Only recently has been called a dictator Mubarak and Blair said today:" It 's a great man. " In our cables is everything. Also on Gaddafi, on which we put out 480 cables. What we're trying to do is a regional approach, so even if Mubarak will be put in place a puppet from the West, it must necessarily improve the living conditions of the people to govern and this will push, for example, Tunisia also to seek to improve their living conditions, creating a positive spiral. This is because the schemes are supported one another, so the protesters will support each other. "
[...]
For the schemes, who is the real enemy, you, Wikileaks, the new cables?
"For the United States, I am the real enemy. Not sources, Wikileaks did not, but I. Why are the person who represents Wikileaks and says the U.S. go af ****. They have asked me to destroy all the publications have no problems with American justice, they wanted me to go on TV to say this and would stop everything. I refused and they have built a false story to discredit me. "
Why?
"Why the Pentagon is like a 16 year old girl trying to seduce you and gets angry if he fails. Because they are accustomed to asking for one thing and get it, but not by us. The only way I have to stop this is destroy my person because he has not done what she was told, I can not think of words that I will go out free. "
Because you are a risk for them?
"I am a risk, because if I will not be punished, I will become a symbol for all the people who said no to the U.S. regime. So many people can say no, and not just ordinary citizens, but also men of the institutions that actually are part of the government apparatus or U.S. military. As will be punished if it is: see Julian Assange was punished if he did not have it done, why should I I do it? ".
How to resist this pressure?
"It's not that hard, I'm not saying it's easy, but I think it would have been much worse if it happened all at once, but it's something that has grown gradually. I have learned to resist this kind of pressure. For example, the first thing you post on Scientology, has cost us 4 years and about 100 cases, with an army of 22 lawyers. At my age I think that you live only once every year leaves at least 2% of our life and then you have to do something, because even if you're there to watch television, your life is slipping away, then you'd better do something, you'd better move you and make something because you do not live many days. Although in this last year I think I've lost a lot more than 2% of my life, at least 15% "(laughs).
What is the thing that most often you complain?
'E' to work against someone, but we are not against anyone. If we get something against the Taliban, we publish against the Taliban, if you get something against the American public against the Americans. The only thing we worry about the authoritativeness of the source. In this case, since the official documents, the authority is inherent. "
Because our Foreign Minister is so worried about you enough to call yourself a terrorist?
"Who is it?"
Frattini
"I do not know who he is, I do not know."
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